Training flight 387th Bomb Group KMCF to KTNT
3 years 8 months ago - 3 years 8 months ago #16841
by jer029
Training flight 387th Bomb Group KMCF to KTNT was created by jer029
Ok...so my NDB navigation is a bit rusty so I was glad to have this fair-weather practice flight. My first unfortunate discovery was that modern charts no longer show many NDB - most likely because they're being shut down as antiquated equipment no longer worth maintaining. No NDB - no marking on the chart. Therefore, I could not locate the NDBs for either KTNT or KMCF on any modern charts. Since they still existed in FSX/P3D, and since Plan-G uses the database for those simulators, I used Plan-G to recreate the NDB locations. From that I printed a flight plan from KMCF to NT to KTNT to TPF to KMCF.
The flight went as expected, I tuned the NDB frequency...not confused by the morse code indication leaving KMCF, as the radio compass did not point to where I expected the NT NDB to be picked up. Sure enough, that sound signature eventually disappeared and eventually was replaced by the correct code signal, indicating that I had homed in on the NT NDB.
My plan was to fly to the NT NDB and then turn to 90-degree heading, landing on runway 9 a short distance from the NDB. Unfortunately, I was still at my crusing altitude of 5000 and, by the time I descended, was unable to locate the airport. The next logical thing to do was to return to the NDB and try again, while watching for the airport at the now-lower altitude I was flying at (about 2000). As soon as I turned around toward the NDB I could see the runway near by, but the reciprocal of Rwy 9, Rwy 27. The wind was 0, so I was good to land on either runway, and I set it down on 27 and taxied to the the terminal for a short break before the return trip.
I flew the return trip the same way, but with similar results. This time I learned from the flight out, and as soon a I picked up the NDB, I descended to 2000 (safe altitude for flat FL terrain). When the needle began to move, I quickly turned left to pick up Rwy 23. My calculations were correct, but by the time I was aligned with the runway it was almost directly under me. I flew "downwind" from Rwy 23 to Rwy 5 where I turned around and landed to complete the flight. Note - for those using Navigraph for updated runways, you'll note that there is an increase from Mike's runway numbering.(4-22 to 5-23).
I enjoy flying NDB/VOR navigation, so it's unfortunate that simmers will be forced to find old scenery add-ons (or new scenry with the NDB's added back in)...so that we might fly like the greatest generation had to. Then...we must also find the appropriate charts that show these navigational devices so that we might complete reasonable flight planning.
It's clear to me that, with the absence of DME with this aircraft, that flights must still be made VFR on final approach, even though the ADF/NDB navigation will get you "in the ballpark".
Perhaps I'm missing something here, and Mike can certainly weigh in on my experience and offer additional input. Also - other pilots can contribute too. It's great fun kicking back here at the Officer's Club to tip a few and share our experience of today's training.
Happy flying,
John
The flight went as expected, I tuned the NDB frequency...not confused by the morse code indication leaving KMCF, as the radio compass did not point to where I expected the NT NDB to be picked up. Sure enough, that sound signature eventually disappeared and eventually was replaced by the correct code signal, indicating that I had homed in on the NT NDB.
My plan was to fly to the NT NDB and then turn to 90-degree heading, landing on runway 9 a short distance from the NDB. Unfortunately, I was still at my crusing altitude of 5000 and, by the time I descended, was unable to locate the airport. The next logical thing to do was to return to the NDB and try again, while watching for the airport at the now-lower altitude I was flying at (about 2000). As soon as I turned around toward the NDB I could see the runway near by, but the reciprocal of Rwy 9, Rwy 27. The wind was 0, so I was good to land on either runway, and I set it down on 27 and taxied to the the terminal for a short break before the return trip.
I flew the return trip the same way, but with similar results. This time I learned from the flight out, and as soon a I picked up the NDB, I descended to 2000 (safe altitude for flat FL terrain). When the needle began to move, I quickly turned left to pick up Rwy 23. My calculations were correct, but by the time I was aligned with the runway it was almost directly under me. I flew "downwind" from Rwy 23 to Rwy 5 where I turned around and landed to complete the flight. Note - for those using Navigraph for updated runways, you'll note that there is an increase from Mike's runway numbering.(4-22 to 5-23).
I enjoy flying NDB/VOR navigation, so it's unfortunate that simmers will be forced to find old scenery add-ons (or new scenry with the NDB's added back in)...so that we might fly like the greatest generation had to. Then...we must also find the appropriate charts that show these navigational devices so that we might complete reasonable flight planning.
It's clear to me that, with the absence of DME with this aircraft, that flights must still be made VFR on final approach, even though the ADF/NDB navigation will get you "in the ballpark".
Perhaps I'm missing something here, and Mike can certainly weigh in on my experience and offer additional input. Also - other pilots can contribute too. It's great fun kicking back here at the Officer's Club to tip a few and share our experience of today's training.
Happy flying,
John
Last edit: 3 years 8 months ago by jer029.
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3 years 8 months ago - 3 years 8 months ago #16842
by Westcoast
Replied by Westcoast on topic Training flight 387th Bomb Group KMCF to KTNT
I feel your pain John. Of course, when you're using FSX, the only navigation aids or scenery you have is what is in FSX, no matter what is there now, or was there in 1943.. If it isn't there, you can't use it. And, if it's a radio navaid over enemy held territory, you shouldn't use it because it would have been turned off. So, it's important to use Plan G (based on FSX scenery and navaids) to build your flight plan when you are stuck doing navigation principally by dead reckoning and a few friendly NDBs.
Today I re-flew the August 15, 1943 387th BG raid on the Luftwaffe base at St. Omer (now LFQN). The 387th attacked this base a total of four times during 1943. On my first attempt, I used "pilotage", dead reckoning and visible waypoints to locate the target in moderately clear weather and laid my stick of bombs parallel to and about 3300' north of the runway. If I had been the lead aircraft in a tight formation of 36 B-26s, we might have gotten some of our bombs onto the runways and hardstands being used by the Germans, but all-in-all it was not a stellar performance.
Today, in a hurry to improve my poor initial performance, I dialed in the date (8/15/20) in ctive Sky and accepted the weather, withour bothering to get a forecast for LFQN/ or Station 162, even though there was a low ceiling at takeoff. I climbed to 10,000' and crossed the channel, using dead reckoning to navigate along our attack flight plan. As I entered France (presumably, I couldn't see the coastline), I had zero ground visibility, so I started to descend to 2000' at the IP,hoping that the clouds would protect me (us) from attack from German Antiaircraft batteries. Just as my dead reckoning calculations showed that I should be over the target, we broke out of the clouds at about 5500', only to see the target just off, and behind the right wing, impossible to hit without a new bomb run. Having awakened the German Flak batteries to our presence, I elected to turn and head for home, rather than to attempt a second run at the target. On return to base, I found the weather had lowered to a ceiling of 300' OVC! Without an ILS approach (and no ILS receiver), I attempted an unpublished NDB approach to neighboring Stansted and failed to land safely. It was a good thing I wasn't in Econ mode, so I didn't have to publicize my failure on the SPA website.
Lesson learned. Never attempt a mission if your home base (or nearby alternate) is not forecast to be VFR on your return. Haste makes waste.
These difficulties are typical of what WWII pilots actually had to deal with. Just yesterday I read about a squadron of American piloted spitfires that escorted a group of Eight Air Force B-17s in a raid deep into central France in heavy weather. Having no VFR fixes, both formations lost their way. Eventually, the B-17s encountered the Pyrenees, the mountain range between France and Spain (whoops). That's when they knew they were way off course. Both formations reversed course and headed home. The "spits" dropped down to low altitude to get under the ceiling. Presently, they saw a coastline approaching, and judged it to be the south coast of England. So, they gathered themselves into a tight formation to put on an impressive show. They were wrong., They were approaching the south coast of the Brittany Peninsula - German occupied French territory. None of the spits returned to base.
Today I re-flew the August 15, 1943 387th BG raid on the Luftwaffe base at St. Omer (now LFQN). The 387th attacked this base a total of four times during 1943. On my first attempt, I used "pilotage", dead reckoning and visible waypoints to locate the target in moderately clear weather and laid my stick of bombs parallel to and about 3300' north of the runway. If I had been the lead aircraft in a tight formation of 36 B-26s, we might have gotten some of our bombs onto the runways and hardstands being used by the Germans, but all-in-all it was not a stellar performance.
Today, in a hurry to improve my poor initial performance, I dialed in the date (8/15/20) in ctive Sky and accepted the weather, withour bothering to get a forecast for LFQN/ or Station 162, even though there was a low ceiling at takeoff. I climbed to 10,000' and crossed the channel, using dead reckoning to navigate along our attack flight plan. As I entered France (presumably, I couldn't see the coastline), I had zero ground visibility, so I started to descend to 2000' at the IP,hoping that the clouds would protect me (us) from attack from German Antiaircraft batteries. Just as my dead reckoning calculations showed that I should be over the target, we broke out of the clouds at about 5500', only to see the target just off, and behind the right wing, impossible to hit without a new bomb run. Having awakened the German Flak batteries to our presence, I elected to turn and head for home, rather than to attempt a second run at the target. On return to base, I found the weather had lowered to a ceiling of 300' OVC! Without an ILS approach (and no ILS receiver), I attempted an unpublished NDB approach to neighboring Stansted and failed to land safely. It was a good thing I wasn't in Econ mode, so I didn't have to publicize my failure on the SPA website.
Lesson learned. Never attempt a mission if your home base (or nearby alternate) is not forecast to be VFR on your return. Haste makes waste.
These difficulties are typical of what WWII pilots actually had to deal with. Just yesterday I read about a squadron of American piloted spitfires that escorted a group of Eight Air Force B-17s in a raid deep into central France in heavy weather. Having no VFR fixes, both formations lost their way. Eventually, the B-17s encountered the Pyrenees, the mountain range between France and Spain (whoops). That's when they knew they were way off course. Both formations reversed course and headed home. The "spits" dropped down to low altitude to get under the ceiling. Presently, they saw a coastline approaching, and judged it to be the south coast of England. So, they gathered themselves into a tight formation to put on an impressive show. They were wrong., They were approaching the south coast of the Brittany Peninsula - German occupied French territory. None of the spits returned to base.
Last edit: 3 years 8 months ago by Westcoast.
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