AF447
13 years 7 months ago #11208
by Westcoast
For those of you who have been following the Air France 447 crash investigation saga, here's a great narration of what appears to have happened based on the recent BEA report.
www.flightglobal.com/blogs/learmount/201...the_facts_and_w.html
Mike
www.flightglobal.com/blogs/learmount/201...the_facts_and_w.html
Mike
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13 years 7 months ago #11209
by jetjerry
Mike:
Thanks for posting this LINK.
I am shocked! Pilot error...pure and simple.
It says two co-pilots were in the cockpit at the same time...one flying. I'm not sure if they mean FOs or co-pilots to the captain.
Either way, somebody should have known the drill. A lot of people died because of bad training or bad pilots or inattention.
I used to hand fly so much in order to keep my skills sharp that I would hear about it from check amen. I would also insist that my FOs hand fly enough to learn the airplane.
What a needless tragedy!
Thanks for posting this LINK.
I am shocked! Pilot error...pure and simple.
It says two co-pilots were in the cockpit at the same time...one flying. I'm not sure if they mean FOs or co-pilots to the captain.
Either way, somebody should have known the drill. A lot of people died because of bad training or bad pilots or inattention.
I used to hand fly so much in order to keep my skills sharp that I would hear about it from check amen. I would also insist that my FOs hand fly enough to learn the airplane.
What a needless tragedy!
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13 years 7 months ago #11210
by Westcoast
Jerry,
Almost certainly pilot error. However, I think the automated systems didn't help. I'm not sure that the pilots even knew they were in a stall. For example, the warning horn was going off and on because it cuts out at 60 KIAS, so they pitched down and turned the horn on! On top of that, there was no AoA indication in the cockpit. The ADI was saying less than 15 degrees nose-up, but the AoA was greater than 40 degrees!
Mike<br /><br /><!-- editby --><br /><br /><em>edited by: Westcoast, May 30, 2011 - 02:50 PM</em><!-- end editby -->
Almost certainly pilot error. However, I think the automated systems didn't help. I'm not sure that the pilots even knew they were in a stall. For example, the warning horn was going off and on because it cuts out at 60 KIAS, so they pitched down and turned the horn on! On top of that, there was no AoA indication in the cockpit. The ADI was saying less than 15 degrees nose-up, but the AoA was greater than 40 degrees!
Mike<br /><br /><!-- editby --><br /><br /><em>edited by: Westcoast, May 30, 2011 - 02:50 PM</em><!-- end editby -->
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13 years 7 months ago #11211
by airhogg
I just finish watching a special on tv about AF 447.
there was 2 flt instructors on a "flt simulator" showing the procedure in case of pitot tubes malfunction. they made it look simple, on the ground, but at fl 350, it might be a different story. l wonder if most pilot are aware of this procedure? l`m sure now that will part of their
fltsim training.
there was 2 flt instructors on a "flt simulator" showing the procedure in case of pitot tubes malfunction. they made it look simple, on the ground, but at fl 350, it might be a different story. l wonder if most pilot are aware of this procedure? l`m sure now that will part of their
fltsim training.
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13 years 7 months ago #11212
by YETIV8R
What a tragic.
Fly-by-wire, I thought would automatically try to maintain the nose angle in case of 'Stall' to maintain the proper airspeed even during 'alternate' law. I guess I was wrong. I do not know much about Airbuses.
7,000ft/min rate of climb is just mind blogging. This 'PF' clearly did not know how to hand fly. So tragic.
I just finished watching MayDay series of Northwest 255 (MD-80) that crashed during takeoff on the evening of August 16, 1987. They forgot to extend the flaps!! Apparently they forgot to perform the taxi checklist when they got lost in the taxiway due to last minute change in departing runway. In my opinion a good pilot would check at least the flaps before take off. Also, they had disabled the warning system that warned 'flaps' if flaps were not extended during high speed taxi and of course during roll out. Apparently, disabling of this warning was widely used during those time because it was "annoying".
Jerry, I am sure you are aware of P-40 circuit breaker??
Cheers,
Naresh
Fly-by-wire, I thought would automatically try to maintain the nose angle in case of 'Stall' to maintain the proper airspeed even during 'alternate' law. I guess I was wrong. I do not know much about Airbuses.
7,000ft/min rate of climb is just mind blogging. This 'PF' clearly did not know how to hand fly. So tragic.
I just finished watching MayDay series of Northwest 255 (MD-80) that crashed during takeoff on the evening of August 16, 1987. They forgot to extend the flaps!! Apparently they forgot to perform the taxi checklist when they got lost in the taxiway due to last minute change in departing runway. In my opinion a good pilot would check at least the flaps before take off. Also, they had disabled the warning system that warned 'flaps' if flaps were not extended during high speed taxi and of course during roll out. Apparently, disabling of this warning was widely used during those time because it was "annoying".
Jerry, I am sure you are aware of P-40 circuit breaker??
Cheers,
Naresh
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13 years 7 months ago #11213
by Westcoast
Here's an interesting article from Der Spiegel:
www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,765764,00.html
This says that, upon returning to the flight deck, the Captain recognized the anomaly as a stall and gave the appropriate instructions. Apparently the stall was by then irremediable. The article also proposes an explanation that does not seem entirely consistent with the BEA report's assertion that the PF continued to command a nose-up attitude (with a very brief exception) throughout the descent. Clearly, there's more to learn.
Mike
www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,765764,00.html
This says that, upon returning to the flight deck, the Captain recognized the anomaly as a stall and gave the appropriate instructions. Apparently the stall was by then irremediable. The article also proposes an explanation that does not seem entirely consistent with the BEA report's assertion that the PF continued to command a nose-up attitude (with a very brief exception) throughout the descent. Clearly, there's more to learn.
Mike
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