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Start ::  Pilot's Lobby ::  Important Announcements/Welcome/Achievements ::  ECON2018 Flights - PAX & Cargo Requirements
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ECON2018 Flights - PAX & Cargo Requirements

jer029 Posted: 18.03.2018, 20:11

jer029

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Pilots:

First, thank you to those pilots being the first to test out the new Econ flights.  This gives us an opportunity to review things and consider improvements to the system as we go forward.  One thing that has become clear is that pilots are either not reading the flight instructions or don't consider them important.  The problem is that the PAX and Cargo are now factors that impact the flight cost/revenue.  By allowing all types of flights to be flown as official flights in the Econ mode, it further defeats our efforts to maintain some comparability among the flights, challenges, and even taking the time and effort to define these elements as part of a particular flight.

Please refer to my earlier forum post with pictures showing how to adjust your simulator payload and SPAACARS to show the correct cargo and Pax totals.

So...this leaves us with a bit of a dilemma on how to go forward.  After discussions with Mike, I'm leaning toward the idea of adding additional checks that will disallow those flights that don't meet the required cargo/pax requirements of the flight.  If we make these changes, those flights will remain recorded in your logbooks and part of your flight hours just as all flights always have been for such special programs here at SPA.  However, those flights will disappear from the official ECON2018 listing, and you will have to re-fly those flights using the correct payload requirements.  Those flights will also appear again in the new "practice area" when I finally get that area cleaned up, as will any other flights made with econ mode set that aren't official econ flights.

Anyway, I felt it was important to share my thoughts on this issue and the reasoning for making these proposed changes, as I believe that, in the long run, maintaining what consistency is within our control will improve the flight experience of the Econ Project for our pilots.

denk

Sorry for any inconvenience this may cause for those of you who have already completed a number of flights.  On the positive side - it gives you an opportunity to improve your original listings, and after all, we're here to fly anyway smile.

John



edited by: jer029, Mar 19, 2018 - 12:27 PM

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FlyGuy Posted: 19.03.2018, 16:58

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With my plane at the gate, brake on and engines off, I go to the setup for the plane and enter the fuel and cargo values for the flight. When I start SPAACARS and enter the flight # for that flight has all the correct information for that flight except for the pax and fuel values. If I attempt to correct the values to agree with those I have already entered into the setup for the plane SPAACARS does not accept the changes. The values it displays do not agree with the weight values that are shown in the sim for my plane. I guess it is my error but I am not sure where I got off the track on this. 
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jer029 Posted: 19.03.2018, 17:56

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Please also look at the two photos that are still in the 'recent photo' area at the bottom of the main SPA page and/or refer to the link contained in my post directly above your post.  The link is here also- just click with the words: "earlier forum post with picture".   That explains things too, but I'll try again:

When SPAACARS starts, it should read your simulator's aircraft information and display that on the main SPAACARS flight plan page.  In addition, it should update the 'cargo' field in SPAACARs with your entire simulator's payload weight for the currently loaded aircraft.  When you increase or decrease the number of passengers the cargo weight changes in 170 lb amounts for each passenger added to the passenger field.

You must set your aircraft's payload weight in your simulator for the needed passenger and aircraft weight first, however, because that sets the total weight of your aircraft's payload weight that SPAACARs reads from.  If you don't set it exactly correct then your cargo and passengers won't come out right when you move the passenger number up in the SPAACARs passenger field.

So...here's a step-by-step how to do it:

1.  Set your plan's payload up to include the correct number of passengers needed for the econ flight.  (that's 170 pounds for each passenger needed.  If the plane you're flying doesn't have passenger areas described in the payload area.  Just multiply num of passengers needed time  170 and enter that total anywhere in your payload.  Now just add the cargo lbs to your simulator's payload area in the same way so that your plane shows #passengers * 170 + cargo weight = total weight.

2.  Start SPAACARS and when it initializes the data from your aircraft, the correct payload weight should appear in the cargo area with 1 pax set at 170 lbs.  change the PAX number to the necessary number of PAX needed and that amount will auto-subtract from the cargo field and the remaining value in the cargo field should be exactly the  cargo weight needed.

Note:  SPAACARs might need to have your sim off pause and out of menu screens in order to initialize, but it will even re-initialize the aircraft data until you push the 'start logging' button, then you're locked into those settings for the flight.  You will also want the econ mode box clicked in the settings menu before pushing 'start log' button or you cannot change to econ mode mid-flight.

Hope this helps.  Let me know if you still can't get it and perhaps we can meet on teamspeak and I can talk you through the process as we look at our respective computer screens.  I refer you to that earlier post that is linked above because I go into greater depth about how these addons all interact with each other, as well as how to set the payload and SPAACARs using the first flight as an example with pictures.

Also know that if you have a flight plan loaded into your simulator, pushing the flight plan button on SPaACARs will auto load that data onto SPAACARS main screen and you don't have to manually enter that data.

John



edited by: jer029, Mar 19, 2018 - 06:00 PM

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jpc12785 Posted: 19.03.2018, 20:35



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Just to make sure, the cargo weight should be exact down to the lb correct? For example my last flight after i added # of pax I was showing 715 lbs against 650 lbs req. So I went ahead and flew. Next time I will make it exactly 650 unless you say 50-75lbs doesn't matter?
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jpc12785 Posted: 19.03.2018, 20:37



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more I read...it must need to be exact because all my flights need to be ran again. THis is a good problem to have. :)
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jer029 Posted: 19.03.2018, 21:55

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What a wonderful attitude Jim!  And I apologize for the added 'workload' to our over-burdened pilots lol2, but this continues to be a work in progress - and all of you are helping shape this program for what we really hope will be a new and unique addition here at SPA unlike that found at most other VA's.  Creating something new and worthwhile often requires extra effort ( I know that Mike and I have been 'burning the midnight oil' pushing this project forward), so I guess it's only fair to share some of the load with our pilots.

Again, thanks to all for your help with this, your continued participation, and what really is a kind of a 'beta-testing' of our new project so that we might make the necessary changes to produce the best outcome our abilities allow.

John



edited by: jer029, Mar 19, 2018 - 09:56 PM

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jer029 Posted: 19.03.2018, 22:01

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Jim,

Currently I have it set at exactly the required cargo and pax requirements.  (it's easier to program that way for sure).  My partner in crime, MSP Hub Mgr. Mike, who has been in charge of the algorithm for the new cost/revenue model, flew his flight at 2 pounds short of the required cargo limit.  His flight was 'bounced' as well.  We couldn't very well reject all the other flights but make a 2-pound allowance to keep a manager's flight.  After all, this isn't real business where office politics rule you know freu.

John



edited by: jer029, Mar 19, 2018 - 10:21 PM

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FlyGuy Posted: 20.03.2018, 00:44

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From the start I have been following the procedure as you outlined above. Just completed flight # 600014 which calls for 5pax and 415# cargo or 1265# combined wgt. for both. In the sim my combined wgt. showed a payload of 1265# and when I started SPAACARS, it too displayed a total wgt. of 1265# but with 1 pax. When I tried to change the pax to 5, SPAACAR would only display 7 pax or 1 pax but no other number. (cargo wgt. changed accordingly) The only option was to do the flight with the correct cargo wgt. of 1265# but with 1 pax instead of 5. I used the payware BN2 Islander and I wonder if this model is the cause of the problem. I will do the flight again using another plane to see if anything changes. I enjoy the challenge of the ECON2018 flights.
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jer029 Posted: 20.03.2018, 08:56

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What simulator are you flying with?

Also note that SPAACARS will not let you exceed the pax count available based on you cargo wgt, so if you're trying to change the pax field, YOU MUST HIGHLIGHT THE OLD PAX NUMBER AND THEN TYPE THE NEW ONE SO THAT IT REPLACES THE CURRENT VALUE SIMULTANEOUSLY.

When you state that 'SPAACARS only lets you enter 1 pax or 7 and no other values' makes me think you're trying to change the number with the idea of deleting the extra character in the pax field as you edit it.  You can't do that because, if you currently have '1' pax and  position your curser before or after the '1' and enter '5', you end up with pax of '51' or '15' and the pax count will jump to the max value allowed by total payload wgt, in this case '7'.  You must highlight the current value of '1', or whatever is in the pax field, and when it's highlighted, type in '5'.  This replaces the '1' with a '5' without seeing the value as an invalid '51' or '15'.

Sorry if that issue is causing frustration - I'll try to remember to change how that works in future release.  Let me know if the process described above works for you.

John



edited by: jer029, Mar 20, 2018 - 09:24 AM

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FlyGuy Posted: 20.03.2018, 11:55

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Small things do count. I highlighted the pax field and entered the correct # of pax and it was accepted. All looks good now. Thanks much for clearing this up. 
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jer029 Posted: 20.03.2018, 12:02

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Thanks for your detailed description of the issue.  It allows me to make changes to  improve the program from a 'users' perspective other than just my own.  I take such things for granted only because I know the internal workings of the program, whereas other users without that knowledge can encounter frustrations I didn't consider.  That issue can easily be corrected to make the validity-check upon exiting that pax field rather than on the value changing, but I think my concern was that pilots might leave the cursor in that field and then go fly, causing the validity check not to occur.  I'll have to play around with it a bit when I next take a look at it to see if about an alternate way to guarantee the  validity check.

John

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jpc12785 Posted: 20.03.2018, 16:29



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I ran 600000 again and at least per the flight report on home page I had 15 px/650 cargo. It didn't show up in the flight activity page. Is that a glitch or something I did wrong in the flight? 
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jer029 Posted: 20.03.2018, 16:37

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Sorry Jim,

I'm certain its a bug with the display again since my latest adjustment.  Let me look into that because your flight looks fine.wallbash

John

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jer029 Posted: 20.03.2018, 18:19

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Jim,

Should be fixed now.

John

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JimMagin Posted: 21.03.2018, 15:42

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Ok I flew my last econ 2018 flight because it is not real flying. 

Jim Magin SPA629



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jpc12785 Posted: 23.03.2018, 23:18



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Loving the cargo flights. Thanks for putting together. Just fyi flight 600005 didn't transfer over to regional activity but maybe a delay. I will end up flying it again anyway so doesn't matter
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jer029 Posted: 26.03.2018, 22:48

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Thanks Jim, sorry about the continuing display problems, as I can see there's still a problem and will fix when I return next week.

jer029
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