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Start ::  Pilot's Lobby ::  Important Announcements/Welcome/Achievements ::  Econ 2018 is Live
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Econ 2018 is Live

Westcoast Posted: 12.03.2018, 18:26

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After a couple of months of development work, we are happy to announce that the Econ 2018 Module has gone live.  You will find a link to the new Econ 2018 page in the menu on the left of our home page. The new module is based, at least in spirit, on real world data for the costs and revenue of commercial aviation.  It will present you with a series of flight assignments, including passenger and cargo loads, and let you determine how to fulfill these assignments in the most economical way.  To use the new module, you will need to download the latest version of SPAACARS, version 10.5 and check the Economics option in the Options Menu.  You will certainly want to read the instructions available from the Econ 2018 page and try several test flights using the Econ Practice Flights link before you begin.  Happy Flying!

Mike Daugherty
MSP Hub Manager

John Rogers
SPA Webmaster

Westcoast
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jer029 Posted: 13.03.2018, 09:24

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My thanks to Mike for helping take this econ project to the 'next level' by working on an improved cost/revenue formula to add additional realism to the latest Econ project.

Due to the significant changes in the latest model, the old Cargo-Econ page has been 'closed' for additional improvement.  The older 3 flight groups will still be available for pilots to fly under the old model that only applied penalties against a $1000 revenue base.

Regardless, pilots must update their version of SPAACARS to version 10.5 (available for downloading and install as previous versions) if they wish to have any econ function - even in the practice page and accessible from the "Daily Flights" area on the main SPA home page.  Using SPAACARS 10.5 you should be able to set econ mode on any flights and see the results on the Econ Practice Flights link on the Main Menu under Economics. 

I strongly agree with Mike that pilots make several practice flights prior to an actual econ flight to see how their flight planning is evaluated under the new model.  One thing I've noticed is that it seems better to fly with a bit extra fuel rather than get hit with fuel penalties.  My few practice flights are showing on the Econ Practice page and I'll be trying at least one more before I try an actual flight.  As with the past model - your first official flight is the one that counts for that flight number, and while you can make additional flights and get hourly credits for them in your logbook, they will not show on the official econ page - only that first flight of a given flight number.

Lastly, on the new Econ Page, when you're logged into the SPA site, you can click a link to create or edit your 'regional airline' name.  This will be the name that appears on your official Regional Flight Activity.  If you leave this option blank, then it defaults to your pilot name as has been displayed in the past.

We're hoping that this Econ-2018 project continues to add new and exciting challenges for our SPA pilots.

John

jer029

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JimMagin Posted: 13.03.2018, 15:43

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Very well put together so far and sounds very interesting. Just one question are you taking into consideration Max Landing Weight(MLW) for the are aircraft used.
Also John and Mike I'm working on some cargo flight out of Miami send to you when done for your input and maybe and addition to the cargo flights. 

Jim Magin SPA 629



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bill721 Posted: 13.03.2018, 16:59

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Great, thanks folks.  Question is there any way to get the pushback audio to play when using GSX Ground services pushback?
Thanks Bill

Bill Ditz SPA302

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jer029 Posted: 13.03.2018, 17:17

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Jim,

Indirectly aircraft takeoff weight is considered because cargo, passenger and fuel are significant factors, but the Max Takeoff Weight of the aircraft a determinate factor, as Mike indicated in the instructions, ie.  the larger the aircraft - the more it will cost you to fly.  Thus, if you take a large aircraft and under-utilize it's capacity, you'll likely suffer a loss of net income for the flight.

Bill, I don't think so, which is too bad, because I also have used GSX (at least when I was using FSX - haven't looked for the p3d v4 version yet).  I would have to set an alternate method of starting the 'safety message' audio - which could be done in future release.  It's the same with some payware aircraft like the Aerosoft CRJ700 I think.  The landing lights are configured outside of the standard simulator settings so they don't trip the audio "prepare for takeoff/landing".  Again - may have to come up with an alternate for such things.

John



edited by: jer029, Mar 13, 2018 - 05:20 PM

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JimMagin Posted: 14.03.2018, 09:22

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Ok thanks John for the info. other question does the cargo weight include passenger baggage or do we need to at if so what weight per passenger.
normally I think 55 lbs is used. smile just hard to get the real pilot out of my head in the simi LOL

Jim Magin SPA629



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jer029 Posted: 14.03.2018, 10:18

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Jim,

That's a good question - and it deserves a bit of explaining for all pilots to understand how the sim works with SPAACARS and ECON-2018.

First, the simulator itself doesn't see passengers, baggage, etc.  It only sees payload weight and fuel weight.  All these extra things you see listed are additions handled by a particular aircraft model and controlled by programming for them - similar to the issue in the earlier post on this thread about how landing light switch won't trip the "prepare for takeoff/landing" of SPAACARS (because SPPAACARs reads simulator settings while these are handled by some payware programming outside of the simulator settings on some models).

SPAACARS - SPAACARS takes the total payload weight your simulator is showing and allows you to make the necessary changes as to how much of that weight is for PAX and what is for cargo.  It gets the total payload weight from the simulator AFTER you have initialized the payload and fuel for your plane in your simulator, so SET YOUR PLANE UP FOR PAYLOAD AND FUEL BEFORE STARTING SPAACARS.  Actually, SPAACARS should recognized changes to fuel/payload settings made prior to starting your flight, but you'll want to check the totals on the main screen of SPAACARS to be sure it's correct for PAX and cargo.

For some reason, when I originally programmed this (perhaps to include them in the payload weight), I included pilot/copilot weights as passenger weights.  Thus, for the purpose of ECON-2018 and SPAACARS, when calculating for the PAX number shown in the ECON-2018 flight schedules, you will want to consider the pilot and copilot as a PAX, otherwise it won't come out right on the main SPAACARS when you add it all together with the cargo.

For example, I fly the DHC-6 Twin Otter (Aerosoft) on flight 600000, the first Econ-2018.  It requires 15 PAX and 650 cargo.  Aerosoft has set up payload and pax settings, plus pilot/copilot areas in their fuel/payload area.  When this gets plugged into the actual simulator, as previously stated, it only sees this all totaled as payload weight along with the cargo.  So, I have to add my 13 PAX in the passenger area at 170 lbs. each along with the pilot and copilot at 170 lbs. to equal 15 pax.  I then add my 650 lbs. of cargo weight to the cargo areas supplied in the fuel/payload area by Aerosoft.

Now when, SPAACARS sees the payload weight on the main page of SPAACARS, you can move your 15 PAX over to the PAX column and the cargo will correctly display the cargo weight at 650 lbs.  Additionally, SPAACARS provides the "Cargo Capacity" field which will show the remaining cargo capacity that SPAACARS believes is available given the current fuel, cargo and pax weight according to the simulator readings.  If you fill your plane to Max takeoff Weight this field will read "0", as there is no unused capacity remaining.

So...the short answer is:

Ensure that your aircraft payload weight is set for (#pax * 170) = ttl pax wgt + cargo wgt = ttl payload wgt.

This will allow you to adjust the number in the PAX field of SPAACARS to show the number of passengers required by your ECON-2018 flight and the remainder should show the correct value of cargo for your flight in the cargo field of SPAACARs.

Here are two pics in my photo album showing my settings for ECON-2018 flight # 600000 as explained above.  Click each of them to follow the link to my photo album where they are explained further in the comments area of each pic.






Hope this helps clarify some things for all pilots.

John





edited by: jer029, Mar 14, 2018 - 11:21 AM

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JimMagin Posted: 14.03.2018, 15:02

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Ok Thanks Again John Very good explanation I'm sure that it well other pilots

Jim MaginSPA629 



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jpc12785 Posted: 14.03.2018, 20:25



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Just caught up to this post. Can't wait to try these out. 
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jpc12785 Posted: 15.03.2018, 00:56



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Question: I submitted flight 600000, I don't see anything showing up on the ECON 2018 page. I didn't register my region name until after this first flight. Maybe that was problem. Or do I need to use "CB" at the end of flight #? THanks
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jpc12785 Posted: 15.03.2018, 00:57



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actually just noticed I only have SPACARS 9.5 so maybe that's the prob. I will update and fly 600000 again. 
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Westcoast Posted: 15.03.2018, 01:09

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Hi James,

Yes, that's definitely the problem.  You have to be using SPAACARS 10.5 for Econ 2018 to work.  However, congratulations on being the first pilot to give it a try.

Mike Daugherty
MSP Hub Manager

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bill721 Posted: 15.03.2018, 17:53

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I experimented just letting GSX do the pushback and after it started I pressed Shift P for pushback and then shift P again turned it off and the recording played so that's a good work around.  FYI the FSX version of GSX seems to run fine in P3Dv4.

Bill

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JimMagin Posted: 15.03.2018, 19:12

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Ok a little confused Flew two flights so far I noticed Mike flew the first flight also we both flew the same aircraft type DHC6 with 15 paxs and 650 cargo(Mike's648) LOL
anyway there is a $659.44 difference between the two flights and I had a $89.64 penalty so over $700 difference I don't think because his flight was 30 mins longer he used $700 wither of fuel. Also there is over a $700 difference between Encon 2018 and Daily Flight Arrivals revenue. Please take this observation as a helpful  input.
I know from the little programing I do no matter how hard we try to debug the program them little buggers sneak in. The bugs my be easier find cause you have a place to look.

Between you John and Mike this is a great addition I do Believe all your hard work is going to make this a more fun place to fly.


KEEP UP The Excellent Work

Jim Magin SPA629  



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jer029 Posted: 15.03.2018, 20:21

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Bill,

Thanks for the GSX update, I'll consider trying mine in p3d as well.

Jim,  thanks for your input, but there's no bug involved there, just complex formula calculations.  A combination of factors likely entered into the equation here, some of which you've already noted.  MIke somehow missed a couple of pounds of cargo, your flight was shorter in duration, but possibly longer distance, yet used less fuel, perhaps less headwind factor, and  any number of things that resulted in a more efficient outcome than MIke's flight.  While I haven't plugged the various raw inputs into the cost/revenue model, I'm fairly certain that the output is correct based on the current formula.  After all, both flight were pushed thorough the same cost/revenue routine, so there were no math errors possible here, just the results of the additional complexity that Mike added to this new cost/revenue model to make it more realistic.  Also, while there may be difference in the flight model definitions for the same aircraft type you're both flying that might also be a factor, you had a penalty in carrying a bit too little fuel while Mike carried extra fuel.  Again,  depending upon how much extra fuel you carry or how much you dip into your 45 min reserves, either situation can cost you depending on the circumstances.

John



edited by: jer029, Mar 15, 2018 - 08:34 PM

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jer029 Posted: 15.03.2018, 20:29

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Just a note about the displays of data related to Econ.  As this has been a work in progress, there was a brief period where the display wasn't working correctly after the first two flights.  I've fixed this now, but am not entirely happy with the output - not easily sorted by average revenue, which I'm thinking it the best way to display.  I will slowly be adding various displays as I have time think of interesting ways of comparing the data.  I'm also not happy with the internal operation of how the data is stored, and will likely be making additional changes soon.  Most of these changes should not interfere with the ongoing use of ECON-2018, which I believe is on its way to becoming an exciting new addition here at SPA.

Additionally, the 'practice Flights' page isn't exactly accurate, nor is the display on the Daily Flights link when you click on your flight for the flight detail information.  I hope to clean this up in the near future as well.  Please look to the ECON-2018 page for official flight detail information, as the data on that page and the related flight detail display for a particular flight is correctly displayed based on the current cost/revenue formula.

As with the past Econ module, I hope to separate the various group outputs so that pilots get to start anew with each new group rather than having their past problems haunt them throughout future ECON flights.  So many possibilities for fun flying ahead...

John



edited by: jer029, Mar 15, 2018 - 08:32 PM

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JimMagin Posted: 15.03.2018, 21:08

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Thanks Again John excellent response as always Keep Up the Good Work never ending labor of Love 

Jim Magin SPA629



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jpc12785 Posted: 15.03.2018, 21:23



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The new econ mode looks awesome. If i'm reading correctly it looks like you can carry more than the specified cargo amount as long as you are within weight restrictions of chosen aircraft? 
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jpc12785 Posted: 15.03.2018, 21:40



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second thought I guess it makes more sense to have the exact amount of cargo specified as to burn the right amount of fuel...I'm 15 px and 1000 (vs 650 spec) lbs cargo for this 600000 flight I started a while ago. Will see how goes. 
I will post some pics to forum for the cargo econs...
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jpc12785 Posted: 16.03.2018, 00:16



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Last ? for a while I promise...I swear I have read through these post 9 times but my info retention skills are poor. How is the fixed cost portion calculated? Assuming it is diff for every aircraft? 

Here are some flight sim selfies I took from route 600000...I will req an album at some point if still open

http://prntscr.com/irugar

-D228, PAJN-PANC cruise 0510 local time

http://prntscr.com/irvepx

snowy short final 7R

http://prntscr.com/irvfbc

touchdown

http://prntscr.com/irve1f

Empty at PANC
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