Welcome to St. Paul Airlines, !
Main Menu

Who's Online
 Welcome Guest
Join Us!


 Login:
User:


Password:


Remember me



Retrieve lost Password
 Online
 Members:0
 Guests:11
 Total:11
 Online Members
No Online members

SPA Recommends
VirtualCol Simulations

Return to Misty Moorings

flyawaysimulation.com

Avsim.com

Flightsim.com

SimRoutes

Flight Simulator Navigation

FS Goof's

Airman's Information Manual

NOAA Metar Access

IFR Refresher Magazine

History of MSFS

Flightaware.com

Fly Better

Aviator90 videos

search pnForum latest posts Note: Registered users can subscribe to notifications about new posts Note: Registered users can subscribe to notifications about new posts

to previous topic Print topic to next topic

Start ::  Special Ops Division ::  Bush Operations Notices ::  overweight error? 920381CB
Moderated by: Yoland

Bottom 

overweight error? 920381CB

jpc12785 Posted: 26.01.2018, 00:38



registered: Dec. 2017
Posts: 12

Status: offline
last visit: 05.02.18
Hello. Trying to figure out why this flight (920381CB) was dinged for overweight. Screenshot of my payload screen in p3d. Wonder if it had something to do with restart flight after scenery issue?

http://prntscr.com/i5r263
Top  Profile send PM
 
jer029 Posted: 26.01.2018, 09:15

jer029

registered: Nov. 2011
Posts: 704

Status: offline
last visit: 18.02.18
Hello James,

Sorry about this issue with  Econ Mode.  Yes - it's possible that a restart of flight can change such things in unexpected ways.  It would be my suggestion that Econ Mode flights should not be continued after simulator problems and restarts.  Here is what the SPAACARS User Manual says:

SPAACARS determines the Payload Weight based upon how you’ve set your payload in your simulator.  When initialized, SPAACARS counts all cargo/pax weight as 'payload', default to 1 pilot and all the rest of the payload to cargo.  So, after starting SPAACARs  you'll see that the default of 1 pilot and the rest of those FSX passengers as 'cargo'.  You can move this as desired, but it will not affect the revenue generation for your aircraft (the new Econ Mod doesn’t differentiate between passengers or cargo weight for revenue generation).  Currently most capacities will generate max amount of profit so don’t worry too much about payload.  Over 50% of your max allowable weight (including fuel and payload) will generate full available profit.

So, while I can't be sure what exactly happened based on your photo, I can guess what might have happened.  When SPAACARS starts a flight it fixes your cargo capacity as listed in the "Cargo Capacity" field on the main SPAACARS page.  You can move that weight to PAX or Cargo in SPAACARS and it doesn't matter.   If, at some point in your flight, the various weights of your aircraft change from what was originally initialized in SPAACARS, SPAACARS doesn't reinitialize things mid-flight and would very possibly see this as an increase of payload over that listed in the SPAACARS "Cargo Capacity" field.  For instance, on a restart, you changed the fuel and/or payload from the original startup settings initialized by SPAACARS, those changes might allow acceptable weight in your sim, but not what would have been acceptable under the original configurations in SPAACARS.

I'd have to look at the SPAACARS code to figure out if SPAACARS will update that Cargo Capacity field if a restart occurs.  If it does, then that restart would have resulted in a negative value in the Cargo Capacity field.

So...there's a lot of things that can get messed up with a restart during an econ flight - and adjusting fuel for the mid-flight might also have bad effects on the cargo capacity.

When you restarted, I'm guessing that SPAACARS was already logging the flight? 

Otherwise it should update any changes to the simulator.

If you restarted sim during flight and SPAACARS was already logging, how did you restart the flight?  ie. Did you manually restart the flight at its last location or did you use one of the "Reload Saved Flight" options (SPAACARS or FSUIPC auto-save of current flight).  I would have thought that loading a saved flight would preserve the settings that affect the cargo capacity.

I'm not sure if this helps at all.  If you wish to have a 're-do' on this flight (something I'm trying not to do with Econ Mode), I can change the flight number and allow you to re-fly that flight in Econ Mode.  Changing the flight number at this point will place the flight on the Econ Practice page, keep the flight hours in your pilot's logbook with credited hours for the flight, and allow you to  repeat the flight in Econ Mode.  It appears you otherwise had a no-penalty flight for that flight other than this issue, so I think this re-fly option is reasonable in your case.

If in doubt about an Econ mode flight that you had to restart in the future, it's probably best to turn off the econ mode in settings before landing or change the flight number to a non-econ flight number before landing.  These changes should still work mid-flight and allow the flight to continue as a regular flight but not an Econ Flight.

Hope this helps.   Let me know if you want me to change the flight number or if you have more questions.

John

jer029

Top  Profile send PM Homepage
 
jpc12785 Posted: 26.01.2018, 15:24



registered: Dec. 2017
Posts: 12

Status: offline
last visit: 05.02.18
its all good thanks for your help. I will keep an eye on it. I didn't actually restart my flight and finish it. I just restarted and ran it twice because the first time my add on scenery was all messed up. So I was just thinking that maybe from reloading the flight and messing with the fuel again it somehow sent incorrect data. 
Who knows, will see if it happens again. BTW REALLY neat add on w/ the cargo econ thing. I like 
Top  Profile send PM
 
jer029 Posted: 26.01.2018, 17:01

jer029

registered: Nov. 2011
Posts: 704

Status: offline
last visit: 18.02.18
Thanks Jim,

Let me know if it occurs again and/or if you find a way to replicate the problem.

I'm happy you like the Econ Mode - it's been through many changes before the current one that allows variety of sims and aircraft, yet still provides an additional challenge for pilots.  There's thoughts about possible changes for future Econ Flight groups, but it's limited when trying to keep the cross-platform compatibility and non-aircraft specific.

John

jer029

Top  Profile send PM Homepage
 
JimMagin Posted: 31.01.2018, 15:22

JimMagin

registered: Aug. 2015
Posts: 84

Status: offline
last visit: 12.02.18
Hi John not complaining Just Interesting result on my cargo flight. First thing try to figure the g-force ding for excessive g's As there are no paxs just the two pilots hope my co-pilot did not complain laughing any ways no big deal  better then hitting a mountain on take off. Just wondering if there is away for 0 paxs. The other ding $300 for 1 pound over weight I know you have to use something but in the real world I'll bet over 90% of aircraft take off overweight. Mainly because you have to believe the weight that people give for themselves and bags and do the shipping containers really weigh what they say.  Now that  being said laughing really a great job on SPAACARS kind of like the government you tried to give everyone what that want you spend you whole lie at the computer. Don't what you change any thing just though it was interesting for $300 ding per pound. I better keep a better eye on the cargo weight.

Keep Up the Good Work

JimMagin SPA



Top  Profile send PM
 
jer029 Posted: 31.01.2018, 16:25

jer029

registered: Nov. 2011
Posts: 704

Status: offline
last visit: 18.02.18
Jim,

Yes...both those items you mention are answered in your own post "I know you have to use something".  Yes, I have to draw a line somewhere, and those are the lines.  Other posts by current Econ flight pilots are also helpful, and I answer as best I can.  Keeping in mind the myriad simulators, configurations, and addons, it's nearly impossible to set up something so universal, relatively easy to use, while offering a challenge for our pilots with results that have some comparative value.  I think we've come pretty close here with the current version of Econ Module based on the results I've been seeing so far.

If it's just the passenger screams, you can turn off the SPAACARs sound setting.  The gforce penalty is reasonable for unnecessary stress on the aircraft and possible damage to cargo.  Other pilots, as well as I, have noted that weather addons that  have increased turbulence settings can cause us g-force penalties with SPAACARS, so you're not the first - or the last to probably have those penalties.  Additionally, I've noted that my Aerosoft CRJ700 is particularly sensitive on g-force when flaring for landing.  So...these are just the nature of things that add to the challenge.  The values used by SPAACARS were the best that I could find for realistic values on the Internet.  Any combination of your sim settings, the aircraft you're flying and your weather addon settings can cause the problem and it may not be that SPAACARS g-force settings are improper.

The overweight penalty should almost never show up.  There's no need to increase your payload beyond what the Capacity Field shows in SPAACARs, or come even close to maxing out your aircraft's cargo/pax capacity.  SPAACARS doesn't penalize you for lesser cargo amounts until you've put your cargo below 50% of available capacity and have hardly any fuel as well.

That said, I also want to emphasize for the benefit of all pilots my aforementioned statement in this post, "results that have some comparative value".  The important word here is "some".   It's fun seeing how the other pilots are doing with their flights, and comparing your results while sharing stories of your challenging flights on the forum, but we must remember that, with the many variations of settings, simulators, aircraft and other addons, there can be no sweeping judgements about the skills of those pilots (real or simulated). 

Remember, both that pilot flying with easy settings and a default aircraft and a pilot flying a complex payware aircraft with realistic settings are both displayed together.  As is always the preference here at SPA - the primary challenge is to better your personal performance against your past performance.  That is the closest comparison because you know if you're using the same settings, aircraft, etc.  So - improvements in flight and aircraft handling are due to your improved flight skills, aircraft familiarity, etc.

John


jer029

Top  Profile send PM Homepage
 
airhogg Posted: 01.02.2018, 17:02



registered: Feb. 2010
Posts: 69

Status: offline
last visit: 01.02.18
For your info:

Just completed all of John`s Econ mode cargo flights. Your definitely paying more attention when configuring your flight before departure,  i e: Fuel and  payload weights, altitude,
 speed and keeping a close eye on the weather. Critical when deciding which runway to takeoff and land on. Certainly made these flights a lot more interesting  from start to finish.
Thumbs up to our Webmaster John for a job well done.

SPA 439 Larry
Top  Profile send PM
 
Westcoast Posted: 02.02.2018, 18:03

Westcoast

registered: Jan. 2006
Posts: 931

Status: offline
last visit: 11.02.18
Hear! Hear!

Mike  SPA48

Westcoast
Top  Profile send PM
 


Users online:


This list bases on the users active in the last 60 minutes


Powered by pnForum Version 2.6

Copyright 2000 - 2012 St. Paul Airlines

Web site powered by PostNuke ADODB database library PHP Language